Interview with Mohammad Yunus - Every Business Is A Social Business

Every Business Is A Social Business

Judith Dada and Sebastian Morgner met Nobel Peace Prize winner Muhammad Yunus on the sidelines of the UN Foundation Conference. There they talked to him about progress and in return Muhammad revealed his deeply agile way of thinking.

By Sebastian Morgner and Judith Dada

Morgner: Professor Yunus, what does progress mean to you?

Yunus: Progress is always relative to a reference point. It has to relate to something – to a direction. You must always clarify where you want to go first. With regard to this world, one must first clarify the social and economic goals. We want to end poverty, or we want to create a world in which there are no longer such great income differences. Today, the 85 richest families in the world have as much wealth as the poorer half of the world's population. We must first define the criteria by which we want to measure progress. And we must measure our own abilities to achieve this progress. The problem with the human community is that there are very different ideas about desirable goals.

Morgner: What steps towards success have you made in your own life?

Yunus: I tried to make a difference in the financial sector. I focused on poor women, created an organization – Grameen Bank – and developed a method to provide sustainable financial services, which then became known as ‘microcredit.’ These services had a scope that gave me great satisfaction. Today there are microcredits all over the world. That's good news. The bad news: It took 40 years for microcredit to become so widespread. Unfortunately, an inclusive banking system has not emerged in which no one is excluded and everyone has a chance to participate in the system.

Then I created a different business model. The whole world today is chasing money, it is profit oriented. Doing business today means making money. I believe this system misinterprets human nature. It assumes that we act selfishly. That's wrong. People are not just selfish. People are a combination of many things. You have a selfish side and a selfless side. Our economic system negates the selfless part. In a self-centred economy, I do everything just for myself: I want to be rich and famous.

In a selfless world, I do everything just for others. So, I have built social businesses in Bangladesh. Today they exist in many other countries, in Albania, Brazil, Mexico, Haiti, India, Uganda, Tunisia and so on. I hope that a significant part of the economy will become socially focussed, and that a visible share of investments worldwide will be invested in such business models. The young people love it.

Dada: You mention young people, what do you think are the key factors that matter to them? What steps should they take for success?

Yunus: First of all, as a representative of the younger generations (Yunus turns to Judith Dada), I would like to remind you that you might all look like normal people - but you are different. Completely different. It's unheard of in human history, but technological advances have made the youth of today superhuman - even if they look normal.

They have unlimited technological possibilities – unfathomable power. First, you need to realise how much power you have. You can change the entire world and you don't need anyone else to do it. So, you must first ask yourself: What do we want to do with this power? How do we want to use it? If we have the power to fundamentally change the world, what kind of world do we want?

Young people should take the time to do this. They should sit down and write down: What are the characteristics of the world that I would like to have? If they write it down, it will happen. It could be a world in which no one is unemployed. It's a shame that so many young people are unable to live up to their potential because they don't have a job. They should question the existing system if it doesn't offer them what they need. A system has no right to punish its citizens. Citizens should punish the system. They must create a system in which they can realise themselves as human beings.

Today many people are trapped, they live in an artificial system and don't question it, they think it's normal. Young people must challenge this system. They should create a system where people can do what they want to do. In my world everyone would have a job, and everyone would be safe. Young people should write this down and hang it on the wall, so they see it every day. So that they can imagine a world as it could be every day. Everything starts with an idea, a vision.

Dada: How should people feel in a desirable world - and what role should technology play in this?

Yunus: Today it is called the ‘digital future.’ Tomorrow it could be something different. The systems are changing. Completely new systems will come. But that is not the question. The crucial question is: for what purpose? Technology exists. But will it ensure that there are no more sick people? Maybe we won't need doctors anymore in the future. Maybe in a few years computers will analyse our blood. A doctor may forget an important question or overlook an important aspect. A computer doesn't forget anything. He has access to all relevant information. Maybe the computer will prescribe the necessary additives directly and we will have them delivered to our home - before we get sick.

Morgner: An exciting utopia. A world in which technology takes over many jobs. But the question arises: What will people do in the future? How will they be able to earn money?

Yunus: They'll find out. My job is to solve problems. So, I solve them. New problems are coming. Others then must solve them. Leisure time, sleeping and doing nothing – that is not human nature. Life is discovery. That’s human nature – explore! People are very good at this!

Dada: What characteristics and skills do leaders in our time need to have to solve the challenges that lie ahead?

Yunus: The same qualities as leaders at all times. Who is a leader? Someone who sees further. They can process information faster and holistically. They can lead others in the right direction because they see new possibilities. A leader is the one who pushes a boundary. They need the image of a better world in their mind's eye and the intention to make this world a reality. Then they must inspire the people around them to go with them in this direction: their family, the people in their community, like-minded people around the world. And all for a purpose. At the beginning you have to decide the purpose of your efforts.

Now technology and creative power are coming together. We humans are full of creative potential. The more we use it, the more creative we are. If you don't use it, it will be lost. When you are creative, something happens. And then you have to continue to build on that. In the profit-driven economy, you sell water with sugar that makes people sick or cigarettes that get them addicted. There is no such thing in social business. The purpose there is not to become as rich as possible, but to do something good for others. That's why every business should be a social business. A business model that does not help to improve people's living conditions is unnecessary.

Morgner: Today you are sitting with the United Nations Board of Trustees. If you could choose two global initiatives that will truly advance humanity, what would they be?

Yunus: Firstly, I would reach out to young people, educate them and make them aware of their status as super people. I would involve them and provide them with further technological training. Secondly, I would promote social business models worldwide. If you have an idea of how you can help others, you should never fail because of money. I would set up many funds because if young people have ideas that change something, they should be able to implement them without financial pressure. It shouldn't always be: Make money with it, make more money, make a return. That drives us all crazy at some point!